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	<title>Comments on: Liberal Party self-destructs on climate change</title>
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	<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/</link>
	<description>On economics, politics &#38; other things</description>
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		<title>By: Martha Maus</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9864</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha Maus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9864</guid>
		<description>I read at a political commenatary site ( I think it was Politically Homeless? )  that Rudd would not risk a DD because in a DD the Senate only required 5% vote and that would mean the balance of power would most likely be held by the Greens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read at a political commenatary site ( I think it was Politically Homeless? )  that Rudd would not risk a DD because in a DD the Senate only required 5% vote and that would mean the balance of power would most likely be held by the Greens.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Wood</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9844</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9844</guid>
		<description>For me the problem is the combination of 1 and 3. The issue with 3 is the &quot;scheme caps and gateways&quot; part of the legislation, which requires the minister set 5 years of &quot;scheme caps&quot;, then the minister can set upper and lower bounds for emissions (gateways) for as long as they choose afterwards - with the policy being for an extra 5 years of gateways. The electricity generators (and probably the Liberals) want to lock in 10 years of scheme caps and then 10 years of gateways.

The Greens state that the CPRS &quot;locks in failure&quot; because of the handouts to polluters. While it could be argued that the CPRS &quot;rips off the taxpayer&quot; because of the assistance measures, which also distort the price signal to a certain extent, it doesn&#039;t have much to do with &quot;locking in failure&quot;. The scheme caps and gateways approach is what risks &quot;locking in failure&quot;. But I think the Greens want a nice simple message.

I think the decision on whether to support the CPRS, oppose it, or critique it and let people make up their own minds, is a political one. It is a decision that should be based on strategic considerations in the presence of uncertainty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me the problem is the combination of 1 and 3. The issue with 3 is the &#8220;scheme caps and gateways&#8221; part of the legislation, which requires the minister set 5 years of &#8220;scheme caps&#8221;, then the minister can set upper and lower bounds for emissions (gateways) for as long as they choose afterwards &#8211; with the policy being for an extra 5 years of gateways. The electricity generators (and probably the Liberals) want to lock in 10 years of scheme caps and then 10 years of gateways.</p>
<p>The Greens state that the CPRS &#8220;locks in failure&#8221; because of the handouts to polluters. While it could be argued that the CPRS &#8220;rips off the taxpayer&#8221; because of the assistance measures, which also distort the price signal to a certain extent, it doesn&#8217;t have much to do with &#8220;locking in failure&#8221;. The scheme caps and gateways approach is what risks &#8220;locking in failure&#8221;. But I think the Greens want a nice simple message.</p>
<p>I think the decision on whether to support the CPRS, oppose it, or critique it and let people make up their own minds, is a political one. It is a decision that should be based on strategic considerations in the presence of uncertainty.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Merkel</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9835</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9835</guid>
		<description>Harry, 

The reasons some parts the environment movement intensely dislike this bill (and hence the Greens are under heavy pressure to oppose it) are as follows:

1) the targets aren&#039;t as tight as to be consistent with the kind of global deal they think is necessary.
2) too much money is spent compensating polluters (who&#039;ve been fighting emissions trading for more than a decade), and not enough on households and their favourite green technologies.  
3) apropos 1 and 2, it *locks in* targets which are too unambitious.  
4) it&#039;s too easy to meet the target by buying offsets internationally rather than making reductions here, which a) may not result in net emissions reductions as - for instance - forestry is simply displaced rather than reduced, b) doesn&#039;t drive the development of technologies to reduce emissions, and c) is somehow believed to involve punishing poor people while the rich world gets off again.
5) it doesn&#039;t reward additional voluntary effort.

I think these have varying merit, to say the least - point 1 is the biggie, the rest are sideshows at best - but there you have it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry, </p>
<p>The reasons some parts the environment movement intensely dislike this bill (and hence the Greens are under heavy pressure to oppose it) are as follows:</p>
<p>1) the targets aren&#8217;t as tight as to be consistent with the kind of global deal they think is necessary.<br />
2) too much money is spent compensating polluters (who&#8217;ve been fighting emissions trading for more than a decade), and not enough on households and their favourite green technologies.<br />
3) apropos 1 and 2, it *locks in* targets which are too unambitious.<br />
4) it&#8217;s too easy to meet the target by buying offsets internationally rather than making reductions here, which a) may not result in net emissions reductions as &#8211; for instance &#8211; forestry is simply displaced rather than reduced, b) doesn&#8217;t drive the development of technologies to reduce emissions, and c) is somehow believed to involve punishing poor people while the rich world gets off again.<br />
5) it doesn&#8217;t reward additional voluntary effort.</p>
<p>I think these have varying merit, to say the least &#8211; point 1 is the biggie, the rest are sideshows at best &#8211; but there you have it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9834</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9834</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve said before yourself that the CPRS looks almost identical to what Howard took to the polls in 2007. I don&#039;t think you&#039;ll really have to switch your vote away from the &quot;conservative side of politics&quot;, you&#039;ll just have to vote for another fairly conservative party (the one in Government, perhaps?). 

I still think when I&#039;m older I&#039;ll found a political party called the &quot;Competence Party&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve said before yourself that the CPRS looks almost identical to what Howard took to the polls in 2007. I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll really have to switch your vote away from the &#8220;conservative side of politics&#8221;, you&#8217;ll just have to vote for another fairly conservative party (the one in Government, perhaps?). </p>
<p>I still think when I&#8217;m older I&#8217;ll found a political party called the &#8220;Competence Party&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9833</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9833</guid>
		<description>Uncle Milton, There are many problems with bringing agriculture into the ETS - measurement problems are huge, an internationally traded sector and, yes, payments to farmers for not developing land.  Still I would not want it &lt;b&gt;permanently&lt;/b&gt; excluded from the ETS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uncle Milton, There are many problems with bringing agriculture into the ETS &#8211; measurement problems are huge, an internationally traded sector and, yes, payments to farmers for not developing land.  Still I would not want it <b>permanently</b> excluded from the ETS.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Milton</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9832</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Milton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9832</guid>
		<description>Harry, there are possibly good reasons to exclude agriculture on the grounds that you can&#039;t properly measure the emissions. But the demands by the farming lobby not only to exclude agriculture (so they don&#039;t have to buy permits) but to allow them to sell permits for things like land they decide not to clear is rent seeking on a scale so grand that even French dairy farmers would be too embarrassed and ashamed to try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry, there are possibly good reasons to exclude agriculture on the grounds that you can&#8217;t properly measure the emissions. But the demands by the farming lobby not only to exclude agriculture (so they don&#8217;t have to buy permits) but to allow them to sell permits for things like land they decide not to clear is rent seeking on a scale so grand that even French dairy farmers would be too embarrassed and ashamed to try.</p>
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		<title>By: Yobbo</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9831</link>
		<dc:creator>Yobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9831</guid>
		<description>Supporting your leader despite him supporting the worst policy in Australian history doesn&#039;t sound very smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supporting your leader despite him supporting the worst policy in Australian history doesn&#8217;t sound very smart.</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Henry Casingbroke</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9829</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Henry Casingbroke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9829</guid>
		<description>Oh do. I&#039;m wet already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh do. I&#8217;m wet already.</p>
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		<title>By: Krystian</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9828</link>
		<dc:creator>Krystian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9828</guid>
		<description>The flat-earthers coming up with conspiracy theories about climate change is one thing - But I was also shocked by their lack of honour, dumping on their leader like that. Sure there can be disagreements in politics, but you express your views in the partyroom, and then you stand by your leader and respect their decisions. If somebody can&#039;t cope with that then they don&#039;t belong in party politics. Not sure if it ever got close to this bad for Labor in opposition</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The flat-earthers coming up with conspiracy theories about climate change is one thing &#8211; But I was also shocked by their lack of honour, dumping on their leader like that. Sure there can be disagreements in politics, but you express your views in the partyroom, and then you stand by your leader and respect their decisions. If somebody can&#8217;t cope with that then they don&#8217;t belong in party politics. Not sure if it ever got close to this bad for Labor in opposition</p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/11/10/liberal-party-self-destructs-on-climate-change/comment-page-1/#comment-9824</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=2479#comment-9824</guid>
		<description>Sir Henry, The Greens will vote against it for reasons I still don&#039;t entirely grasp.  Take away 5 that&#039;s 35 not enough.  But yes I hope a large number of Liberals will repudiate the Minchin idiocy.  In Sydney next few weeks will call and terrorise you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir Henry, The Greens will vote against it for reasons I still don&#8217;t entirely grasp.  Take away 5 that&#8217;s 35 not enough.  But yes I hope a large number of Liberals will repudiate the Minchin idiocy.  In Sydney next few weeks will call and terrorise you.</p>
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