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	<title>Comments on: ALS &amp; Senator Fielding Go to Delusionist Love-In</title>
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	<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/</link>
	<description>On economics, politics &#38; other things</description>
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		<title>By: John Humphreys</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>John Humphreys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-578</guid>
		<description>hc -- I don&#039;t think the skeptical position rests on the understanding of Fielding. 

And the pause in temperature increases over the last seven years is true, and worth noting. I think it is most likely explained by natural variation over a continuing soft upward trend... but that doesn&#039;t mean we should pretend it doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hc &#8212; I don&#8217;t think the skeptical position rests on the understanding of Fielding. </p>
<p>And the pause in temperature increases over the last seven years is true, and worth noting. I think it is most likely explained by natural variation over a continuing soft upward trend&#8230; but that doesn&#8217;t mean we should pretend it doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Sinclair Davidson</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinclair Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-573</guid>
		<description>For as long as he is a Senator with balance of power it&#039;s going to have to be refuted one more time. It&#039;s not unreasonable what he is asking - &#039;Why should I believe the IPCC over this graph?&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For as long as he is a Senator with balance of power it&#8217;s going to have to be refuted one more time. It&#8217;s not unreasonable what he is asking &#8211; &#8216;Why should I believe the IPCC over this graph?&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-572</guid>
		<description>Nobody is denying the case for keeping an open mind on climate change. But Fielding came back from that Conference believing its views counterbalanced those of IPCC. That warming is due to solar activity/natural causes, that temperatures have not increased over the past decade etc etc etc. 

His claim is that we need a &quot;debate&quot;. Where has he been?

How many times must these falsifications be refuted? The denialists know that these issues have been addressed a thousand times and yet continue to argue the points without reference to the extensive literature rejecting them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody is denying the case for keeping an open mind on climate change. But Fielding came back from that Conference believing its views counterbalanced those of IPCC. That warming is due to solar activity/natural causes, that temperatures have not increased over the past decade etc etc etc. </p>
<p>His claim is that we need a &#8220;debate&#8221;. Where has he been?</p>
<p>How many times must these falsifications be refuted? The denialists know that these issues have been addressed a thousand times and yet continue to argue the points without reference to the extensive literature rejecting them.</p>
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		<title>By: John Humphreys</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-568</link>
		<dc:creator>John Humphreys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-568</guid>
		<description>HC -- there is a difference between accepting AGW and thinking that it is a crisis. Depending on your definition of &quot;crisis&quot; there is little to support such a position. The IPCC suggests a possible increase in water levels by about a foot over 100 years. If that is considered a crisis, then I&#039;m not sure what isn&#039;t a crisis. I&#039;m running out of milk at home... maybe that counts? :)

Of course, the alarmists get so much air time that people sometimes mistake them for the mainstream scientists... but they are just as deluded as the deniers. I would suggest that the alarmist delusionists are more dangerous than the denialist delusionists, as they seem to have fooled more people and suffer from little media scrutiny. And their conclusions are more damaging.

And while I don&#039;t deny AGW, I think it is fair to keep an open mind about the relative influences of different forcings. It makes sense that our carbon emissions would be important, but nobody (serious) claims it is 100% responsible for our climate change and nobody (serious) says they know exactly the contribution of all the forcings. The work of Lindzen, Soon (Wille the scientist, not Jason the economist), Shaviv and others is still of interest.

It is a shame that some climate change activists feel the need to so quickly resort to smear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HC &#8212; there is a difference between accepting AGW and thinking that it is a crisis. Depending on your definition of &#8220;crisis&#8221; there is little to support such a position. The IPCC suggests a possible increase in water levels by about a foot over 100 years. If that is considered a crisis, then I&#8217;m not sure what isn&#8217;t a crisis. I&#8217;m running out of milk at home&#8230; maybe that counts? <img src='http://www.harryrclarke.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Of course, the alarmists get so much air time that people sometimes mistake them for the mainstream scientists&#8230; but they are just as deluded as the deniers. I would suggest that the alarmist delusionists are more dangerous than the denialist delusionists, as they seem to have fooled more people and suffer from little media scrutiny. And their conclusions are more damaging.</p>
<p>And while I don&#8217;t deny AGW, I think it is fair to keep an open mind about the relative influences of different forcings. It makes sense that our carbon emissions would be important, but nobody (serious) claims it is 100% responsible for our climate change and nobody (serious) says they know exactly the contribution of all the forcings. The work of Lindzen, Soon (Wille the scientist, not Jason the economist), Shaviv and others is still of interest.</p>
<p>It is a shame that some climate change activists feel the need to so quickly resort to smear.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-516</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mashey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-516</guid>
		<description>Usul:
As per the post I mentioned, I use the term theory as it is used in science, not in colloquial usage.

In the former, a theory is something well-supported by evidence and with good explanatory qualities, whereas a hypothesis is something with some, perhaps still fighting with competing hypotheses. An idea is just that. Hence we have the theory of relativity, theory of quantum mechanics, theory of natural selection, theory of cigarette-cancer linkage, and theory of anthropogenic global warming.
In colloquial terms saying something is &quot;just a theory&quot; is in science like saying it&#039;s just an idea. There&#039;s no end of confusion caused by the different onterpretations of the term &quot;theory&quot;.

That&#039;s one of the reasons why the IPCC has a carefully detailed set if terms regarding confidence levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Usul:<br />
As per the post I mentioned, I use the term theory as it is used in science, not in colloquial usage.</p>
<p>In the former, a theory is something well-supported by evidence and with good explanatory qualities, whereas a hypothesis is something with some, perhaps still fighting with competing hypotheses. An idea is just that. Hence we have the theory of relativity, theory of quantum mechanics, theory of natural selection, theory of cigarette-cancer linkage, and theory of anthropogenic global warming.<br />
In colloquial terms saying something is &#8220;just a theory&#8221; is in science like saying it&#8217;s just an idea. There&#8217;s no end of confusion caused by the different onterpretations of the term &#8220;theory&#8221;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s one of the reasons why the IPCC has a carefully detailed set if terms regarding confidence levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Usul</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-514</link>
		<dc:creator>Usul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-514</guid>
		<description>As CO2 emissions in the atmosphere grow the effect is to make the world&#039;s oceans more acidic and affect the viability of the food chain.  This is not a theory, it is a measurable and verifiable fact now.  There is no discussion or politics needed.  Science is science.  There is not a form of science for one group or one country that differs from another group or country&#039;s science - as much as politicians would like to pretend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As CO2 emissions in the atmosphere grow the effect is to make the world&#8217;s oceans more acidic and affect the viability of the food chain.  This is not a theory, it is a measurable and verifiable fact now.  There is no discussion or politics needed.  Science is science.  There is not a form of science for one group or one country that differs from another group or country&#8217;s science &#8211; as much as politicians would like to pretend.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mashey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-506</guid>
		<description>HC: minor nit

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/08/john_mashey_on_how_to_learn_ab.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;how to learn...&lt;/a&gt;, especially section 1.2 on ideas, hypotheses, theories.

I&#039;d claim that AGW is *way* beyond hypothesis into strong theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HC: minor nit</p>
<p>See <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/08/john_mashey_on_how_to_learn_ab.php" rel="nofollow">how to learn&#8230;</a>, especially section 1.2 on ideas, hypotheses, theories.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d claim that AGW is *way* beyond hypothesis into strong theory.</p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-505</guid>
		<description>OK I rephrased it. I think it was clear enough though awkward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK I rephrased it. I think it was clear enough though awkward.</p>
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		<title>By: Sinclair Davidson</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-504</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinclair Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-504</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Irrespective of the truth of the AGW hypothesis the overwhelming majority of scientists and governments around the world endorse the AGW hypothesis.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Does this sentence need to be rephrased?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Irrespective of the truth of the AGW hypothesis the overwhelming majority of scientists and governments around the world endorse the AGW hypothesis.</p></blockquote>
<p>Does this sentence need to be rephrased?</p>
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		<title>By: MAGB</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/06/02/als-senator-fielding-go-to-delusionist-love-in/comment-page-1/#comment-502</link>
		<dc:creator>MAGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/?p=339#comment-502</guid>
		<description>There is plenty of good science to defend a position that says there may be a relationship between CO2 and temperature increase but &quot;global warming is not a crisis and that immediate action to reduce emissions is not necessary&quot;. It is all a matter of degree. 

For example Harper et al in Australian Meteorological Magazine 2008 concluded that &quot;There is no prima facie evidence of a potential climate-change induced trend in tropical cyclone intensity in north western Australia over the past 30 years.&quot; 

A recent paper in the Medical Journal of Australia on Dengue fever refuted everything Garnaut had to say on that topic, as has Paul Reiter on malaria and other infectious diseases. 

So there may be an issue, but the full implications are far from clear, and there is no doubt that Garnaut&#039;s report is seriously flawed in some of its inputs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is plenty of good science to defend a position that says there may be a relationship between CO2 and temperature increase but &#8220;global warming is not a crisis and that immediate action to reduce emissions is not necessary&#8221;. It is all a matter of degree. </p>
<p>For example Harper et al in Australian Meteorological Magazine 2008 concluded that &#8220;There is no prima facie evidence of a potential climate-change induced trend in tropical cyclone intensity in north western Australia over the past 30 years.&#8221; </p>
<p>A recent paper in the Medical Journal of Australia on Dengue fever refuted everything Garnaut had to say on that topic, as has Paul Reiter on malaria and other infectious diseases. </p>
<p>So there may be an issue, but the full implications are far from clear, and there is no doubt that Garnaut&#8217;s report is seriously flawed in some of its inputs.</p>
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