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	<title>Comments on: Confused thinking on the environment at Catallaxy</title>
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	<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/</link>
	<description>On economics, politics &#38; other things</description>
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		<title>By: observa</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8468</link>
		<dc:creator>observa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/#comment-8468</guid>
		<description>Woops! Try-&lt;br/&gt;http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/energ&lt;br/&gt;ywire/2009/01/exxon_chief_embraces_carbon_ta.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woops! Try-<br /><a href="http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/energ" rel="nofollow">http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/energ</a><br />ywire/2009/01/exxon_chief_embraces_carbon_ta.html</p>
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		<title>By: observa</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8467</link>
		<dc:creator>observa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/#comment-8467</guid>
		<description>Surely not this Exxon Harry?&lt;br/&gt;http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/energywire/2009/01/exxon_chief_embraces_carbon_ta.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely not this Exxon Harry?<br /><a href="http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/energywire/2009/01/exxon_chief_embraces_carbon_ta.html" rel="nofollow">http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/energywire/2009/01/exxon_chief_embraces_carbon_ta.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8466</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One other thing harry;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;On of the reason the Price of US LPG gas has fallen is that the potential quantity of gas from US shale? Should that be stopped then? Seeing you had this to say:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;More effort is involved in valuing conservation assets but various indirect procedures can be used (advice from experts and scientists, travel cost method, contingent valuation and so on).  A premium should, of course, be added to the conservation values - a quasi-option value  - since the decision not to proceed with development of the oil and gas deposits is reversible while the decision to proceed with these developments is much less readily reversed to reinstate conservation values.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Oh , I see, let&#039;s keep using up all Arab oil as that doesn&#039;t count. That&#039;s only Arab oil and their conservation areas are nothing compared to what Redford wants to conserve.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If you can&#039;t price the option, harry. You don&#039;t have any option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thing harry;</p>
<p>On of the reason the Price of US LPG gas has fallen is that the potential quantity of gas from US shale? Should that be stopped then? Seeing you had this to say:</p>
<p><i>More effort is involved in valuing conservation assets but various indirect procedures can be used (advice from experts and scientists, travel cost method, contingent valuation and so on).  A premium should, of course, be added to the conservation values &#8211; a quasi-option value  &#8211; since the decision not to proceed with development of the oil and gas deposits is reversible while the decision to proceed with these developments is much less readily reversed to reinstate conservation values.</i></p>
<p>Oh , I see, let&#8217;s keep using up all Arab oil as that doesn&#8217;t count. That&#8217;s only Arab oil and their conservation areas are nothing compared to what Redford wants to conserve.</p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t price the option, harry. You don&#8217;t have any option.</p>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8465</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No, it isn&#039;t silly, harry.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;He disclaimer isn&#039;t disclaimer at all.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How many people are there at real climate who &quot;help them&quot; but aren&#039;t formally recognized as formal Real Climate employees or associates?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A disclaimer is quite simple, harry.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It simply says they have no direct, indirect or even cursory relationship at all.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I call Schimdt&#039;s claim total bullshit as he doesn&#039;t tell you what he&#039;s omitting which is how he operates.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;He&#039;s thoroughly dishonest..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it isn&#8217;t silly, harry.</p>
<p>He disclaimer isn&#8217;t disclaimer at all.</p>
<p>How many people are there at real climate who &#8220;help them&#8221; but aren&#8217;t formally recognized as formal Real Climate employees or associates?</p>
<p>A disclaimer is quite simple, harry.</p>
<p>It simply says they have no direct, indirect or even cursory relationship at all.</p>
<p>I call Schimdt&#8217;s claim total bullshit as he doesn&#8217;t tell you what he&#8217;s omitting which is how he operates.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s thoroughly dishonest..</p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8464</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That&#039;s silly JC and based on selective quotation and a very muddled interpretation. . The denial is tight. They don&#039;t get money from that organisation.  CORE gets lots of money from EXXONMOBIL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s silly JC and based on selective quotation and a very muddled interpretation. . The denial is tight. They don&#8217;t get money from that organisation.  CORE gets lots of money from EXXONMOBIL.</p>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8463</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/#comment-8463</guid>
		<description>Harry:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Did you read the link you provided. It says they HAVE a relationship:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Here, from your link.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;Readers of the Feb. 14th, 2005 Wall Street Journal may have gotten the impression that RealClimate is in some way affiliated with an environmental organisation. We wish to stress that although our domain is being hosted by Environmental Media Services, and our initial press release was organised for us by Fenton Communications,&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is Schmidt &quot;disclaiming&quot; what he isn&#039;t disclaiming, showing again what a dishonest dick he is.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;He titles it as a disclaimer and then we see it&#039;s the exact opposite.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;LOL. That&#039;s what Lambert does. Schmidt obviously taught him. FOTFL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry:</p>
<p>Did you read the link you provided. It says they HAVE a relationship:</p>
<p>Here, from your link.</p>
<p><i>Readers of the Feb. 14th, 2005 Wall Street Journal may have gotten the impression that RealClimate is in some way affiliated with an environmental organisation. We wish to stress that although our domain is being hosted by Environmental Media Services, and our initial press release was organised for us by Fenton Communications,</i></p>
<p>This is Schmidt &#8220;disclaiming&#8221; what he isn&#8217;t disclaiming, showing again what a dishonest dick he is.</p>
<p>He titles it as a disclaimer and then we see it&#8217;s the exact opposite.</p>
<p>LOL. That&#8217;s what Lambert does. Schmidt obviously taught him. FOTFL.</p>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8462</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/#comment-8462</guid>
		<description>Harry:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;They set them up, which they haven&#039;t disclaimed. Neither have they ever clearly explained the exact relationship they have with Fenton and associated firms to Fenton.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Schmidt is a political activist pretending he a scientist in Realclimate, so anything he says needs to be carefully checked as he usually practices the sin of omissions.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have no issue who fund them, as I there shouldn&#039;t be an issue.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;People that work for pressure groups and the funding sources are essentially like-minded on the issues they press for.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s unlike the CIS would suddenly write pro union stuff if the union movement started to fund them.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Intellectual hacks like Lambert obviously push that line but of course it isn&#039;t true.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Dick Lindzen also disagrees with you Harry. He basically shows the relationship Schmidt and his political activist site have with Fenton Communications going back a long way.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Here&#039;s Lindzen in his own words:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://arxiv.org/abs/0809.3762&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;Environmental Media Services (a project of &lt;br/&gt;Fenton Communications, a large public relations firm serving left wing and environmental &lt;br/&gt;causes; they are responsible for the alar scare as well as Cindy Sheehan’s anti-war campaign.) &lt;br/&gt;created a website, realclimate.org, as an ‘authoritative’ source for the ‘truth’ about climate.  This &lt;br/&gt;time, real scientists who were also environmental activists, were recruited to organize this web &lt;br/&gt;site and ‘discredit’ any science or scientist that questioned catastrophic anthropogenic global &lt;br/&gt;warming.  The web site serves primarily as a support group for believers in catastrophe, &lt;br/&gt;constantly reassuring them that there is no reason to reduce their worrying.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry:</p>
<p>They set them up, which they haven&#8217;t disclaimed. Neither have they ever clearly explained the exact relationship they have with Fenton and associated firms to Fenton.</p>
<p>Schmidt is a political activist pretending he a scientist in Realclimate, so anything he says needs to be carefully checked as he usually practices the sin of omissions.</p>
<p>I have no issue who fund them, as I there shouldn&#8217;t be an issue.</p>
<p>People that work for pressure groups and the funding sources are essentially like-minded on the issues they press for.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unlike the CIS would suddenly write pro union stuff if the union movement started to fund them.</p>
<p>Intellectual hacks like Lambert obviously push that line but of course it isn&#8217;t true.</p>
<p>Dick Lindzen also disagrees with you Harry. He basically shows the relationship Schmidt and his political activist site have with Fenton Communications going back a long way.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s Lindzen in his own words:</p>
<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0809.3762" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/0809.3762</a></p>
<p><i>Environmental Media Services (a project of <br />Fenton Communications, a large public relations firm serving left wing and environmental <br />causes; they are responsible for the alar scare as well as Cindy Sheehan’s anti-war campaign.) <br />created a website, realclimate.org, as an ‘authoritative’ source for the ‘truth’ about climate.  This <br />time, real scientists who were also environmental activists, were recruited to organize this web <br />site and ‘discredit’ any science or scientist that questioned catastrophic anthropogenic global <br />warming.  The web site serves primarily as a support group for believers in catastrophe, <br />constantly reassuring them that there is no reason to reduce their worrying.</i></p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8461</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 06:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>By the way JC, &lt;i&gt;RealClimate&lt;/i&gt; reject the claim you make. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;See:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/02/a-disclaimer/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way JC, <i>RealClimate</i> reject the claim you make. </p>
<p>See:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/02/a-disclaimer/" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/02/a-disclaimer/</a></p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8460</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 06:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/#comment-8460</guid>
		<description>Actually JC it wasn&#039;t my point - my point was that CORE&#039;s analysis lacks logic and that point is true irrespective of who funds it.  But I think Tim&#039;s point is  interesting - the money is being used to promote certain badly-motivated policies by groups who appeal to people&#039;s emotions not their logic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually JC it wasn&#8217;t my point &#8211; my point was that CORE&#8217;s analysis lacks logic and that point is true irrespective of who funds it.  But I think Tim&#8217;s point is  interesting &#8211; the money is being used to promote certain badly-motivated policies by groups who appeal to people&#8217;s emotions not their logic.</p>
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		<title>By: Jc</title>
		<link>http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/comment-page-1/#comment-8459</link>
		<dc:creator>Jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 06:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.harryrclarke.com/2009/01/17/confused-thinking-on-the-environment-at-catallaxy/#comment-8459</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s you silly point about oil companies funding pressure groups, harry.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Didn&#039;t Lambert ever tell you that a leftist PR firm funded Realclimate.org?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That&#039;s right, he didn&#039;t. LOL.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;According to the intellectual thug (Lambert) the CRE can&#039;t be a civil right moment because Exxon funds them?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Isn&#039;t he cute? LOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s you silly point about oil companies funding pressure groups, harry.</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t Lambert ever tell you that a leftist PR firm funded Realclimate.org?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s right, he didn&#8217;t. LOL.</p>
<p>According to the intellectual thug (Lambert) the CRE can&#8217;t be a civil right moment because Exxon funds them?</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t he cute? LOL.</p>
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